No HDMI on PS3 not a problem until 2010?
When Sony announced a cheaper, $500 PS3 there was some confusion as to what features would be removed; confusion that both we and Sony tried to clear up. Ultimately, the only non-upgradable feature: HDMI.
Naturally, the majority of consumer confusion has centered on this particular omission and whether or not the PlayStation 3 will support 1080p without an HDMI output. The answer came down to whether or not the content being displayed contained the Image Constraint Token, which would require an encrypted digital connection (using HDMI) to display the full "True-HD" resolution of 1080p. Without HDMI, your fancy new Blu-ray player would be forced to playback your fancy new Blu-ray discs at a measly 540p.
Why hasn't Sony taken any steps to quell the rampant speculation, fear, and misinformation floating around the internets regarding their decision? Well, the answer's simple: they're not sure themselves. Last week Sony announced they would not be downsampling analog connections with their own content, but will the other content owners (read: movie studios) follow suit?
According to recent internet scuttlebutt from reputable German site Spiegel (machine translation), top secret negotiations between a very grumpy Hollywood and some tech giants (including Microsoft and Sony) are looking to delay implementation of the ICT until 2010 or even 2012. This of course helps explain the baffling absence of HDMI on the cheaper PS3 (and Sony's heretofore baffling silence on the issue), and the ongoing absence of an HDMI output on the Xbox 360 (despite what Lik Sang lists).
[Thanks, Fan; via Engadget]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Babylonian @ May 22nd 2006 4:35PM
Anyone willing to pay what Sony's asking for a PS3 is owed 1080p output, period.
Countach @ May 22nd 2006 4:36PM
What is the digital out (optical)?
Joe A. @ May 22nd 2006 4:43PM
that digital optical port is strictly for 5.1 audio output which is a lot clearer than analog. available on ps2, 360, and xbox 1 w/ converter box-cables
crono141 @ May 22nd 2006 4:44PM
Optical audio that can go to a surround sound receiver. PS2 had one as well. Its a fiber-optic cable, delivering 2 channel audio (usually encoded in pro logic or dolby digital) over a digital connection.
DG @ May 22nd 2006 4:44PM
Haha. $500 is "cheaper."
DrJack @ May 22nd 2006 4:45PM
Wow if this is true that Microsoft add on HD DVD just became a lot more enticing.
Though $500 for the PS3 (sans HDMI) still rubs me the wrong way. Never knew I had a price sensitivity to gaming... I guess $400 was the most I'm willing to spend.
Would probably help if the PS3 had some sort of exclusive that looked good (I'm not a MGS or FF fan).
KilgoreTrout XL @ May 22nd 2006 4:50PM
Hmmm.
I know ways to get confused that cost much less money.
Yeti @ May 22nd 2006 4:57PM
Will component analag cables allow 1080p output assuming the ICT is disabled?
.ed @ May 22nd 2006 4:58PM
one big problem, is that there are only a handful of televisions that can handle 1080p through a component wire IF ANY.. my searches found only 8 models of tv in the US that MIGHT have this hodgepodge capability.
heres the thing, if you have a 1080p tv, it has HDMI in as well as component, but probably only takes a 1080p signal from the HDMI in and 1080i from the component if your lucky
in fact, i'd like it if people could post models of tv that TRUELY can support 1080P (P not I) through component.
please show me.
PLEAASEE!!
the fact is, all the people that bought HDTVS BEFORE the 1080P HDMI tvs came out are all dreaming.. your tv cant support 1080P, so stop trying.
im not trying to hurt anyones feelings, but there are people alive who read this blog who think they are going to have a chance at a 1080p picture wihtout a true HDTV....
HD is 1080p
1080i is not as nice as 720p
so settle down everyone.
Countach @ May 22nd 2006 4:58PM
I have a Sony Sound Amplifier that I use for Pro Logic Surround Sound, but I dont see an input for optical audio.
C. Grant @ May 22nd 2006 5:03PM
.ed: you're wrong: 720p/1080i *is* HD. Don't believe the hype.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-definition_television#Format_considerations
.ed @ May 22nd 2006 5:06PM
not when you see the difference.
and not when people are expecting to pull 1080p out of thin air on tvs that dont support it.
1080p "True HD"
1080i / 720p "HD"
Everything else "Regular D"
Lou @ May 22nd 2006 5:09PM
To quote Ken Katuri:
"The PS3 is so powerful, it will support dual HDMI 1080p video output." -shortly after E3-2005...
Gee, I guess it only has 1/2 as much power as they thought when they claimed it was twice as powerful as the Xbox 360...
In the meantime, my TV has a DVI, HDMI, 2x component and one VGA input...so I'm covered. It does 720p and 1080i. It's a Samsung DLP and it's pretty sweet.
I'm hoping Wii does 540p(DVD quality) seeing as how the EA Tiburon team says that even the debug Wii hardware in running at 480p/60fps. Typically debug code runs alot slower than the final executable so they expect to get alot more graphical +'s in there before launch:
http://www.thewiire.com/news/327/1/EXCLUSIVE_The_Wiire_Talks_with_Madden_Wii_Senior_Producer
.ed @ May 22nd 2006 5:11PM
i mean, i apologize for freaking out, but i keep having people email me asking about this ps3 business and out of all of my friends and co workers i'm the only one who has a 1080p television, yet they all keep swearing that the ps3 is going to put out 1080p through component to a 1080i or 720p tv.. but the native resolutions or the PS just can not handle that.. but they keep swearing left and right on message boards and all over the internet that the ps3 will magically create a 1080p picture on tv's that simply are not 1080p..
its complete chaos.
soco @ May 22nd 2006 5:14PM
i'm hoping that this move from Sony and from MS as well, may actually work to the complete advantage of consumers. a bit of unintentional(?) collaboration to get rid of downscaling bit forever. unfortunately, it's still a giant mystery and we won't know for another few years and if we buy these products, we'll have to live with that cloud over our heads that we may have to buy a whole new HD player in the not-so-distant future.
also, i've seen 1080p along with other content, and at 20 feet away i can't tell a difference, as i imagine the vast majority of people can. if it's a still image, i could maybe see a bit more sharpness, but for anything appropriately moving it'd suck. besides, until 1080p/60 is widely supported, it'll suck for games to have a 30fps cap on them.
B Money @ May 22nd 2006 5:28PM
I feel sorry for all of those people that believe Blu-ray is going to be the "next gen" DVD. HD DVD has all of the right components to beat out the competition. HD DVD players are far cheaper: Toshiba has them for 799.99 and 499.99 compared to Sony's at 1000.00. The physical media for HD DVD is cheaper to manufacture. Not a lot of funding needed to change the manufacturing process as well. Toshiba's HD DVD players have already been in the market. Ethernet input for firmware upgrade, Sony's player doesn't have that. The name "HD DVD" is consumer friendly. Triple layer HD DVD can hold 45GB. HD DVD is accepted by the DVD Forum. Several companies claiming blu-ray exclusiveness have switched to both camps.
All of these factors lead me to foresee HD DVD as the winner. REMEMBER VHS VS SONY BETA-MAX?
Andrew @ May 22nd 2006 5:29PM
Doesn't matter b/c this thing probably won't be able to play movies after 2 years anyway. When you put a movie in, it will say, "DISC READ ERROR"
DinnyHoon @ May 22nd 2006 5:30PM
It explains why there isn't HDMI on the "cheap" moel, but what about in 4 years? Nobody wants to spend another $600 on a PS3, just so they could have HDMI. This is where Sony are being really dumb with their 2 options. Whereas the X360 core was just that, an A360 and not much else, the premium was the same console but with extras. Sony could have done just this, but they've gone the other way and taken features OUT of the "core" model.
A major selling point for PS3 was always gonna be the 1080p HDMI (32:9 also rocked, but now that's out the window) and now people will be swayed to buy the charcoal-plated model because of the $600 price tag on the premium. Sony have come backsaying that everything will be upgradable, but not HDMI. Sony have just backed themselves further into this corner of theirs, and they're struggling to breath [/violent metaphors]
TC @ May 22nd 2006 5:37PM
.ed
Here is an example of a TV that will do just that:
http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/westinghouse-LVM-42w2p1.php
Joystiq: It would be good to know exactly how the "cheaper" PS3 outputs video, because it's actually not correct to say "without HDMI your fancy new Blu-ray player would be forced to playback your fancy new Blu-ray discs at a measly 540p." the token info is part of the HDCP which can be through DVI, and Sony could in theory incorporate HDCP into the video output of the cheaper PS3 without using a HDMI port. I don't think they will, having said that, but at the moment the cheaper PS3 looks like the one to go for, unless you've already invested in a HDTV with only HDMI inputs.
Art Guy @ May 22nd 2006 5:39PM
It really doesn't matter if your 1080p HDTV has native inputs or not, odds are you'll never see the difference. My understanding is BluRay/HD-DVD movies are all filmed at 24fps, so having the screen update at 60fps rather than 30fps isn't going to make a single difference with a good line filter. Video games however should look better, but the rumors are that most PS3 titles are shooting for 720p/1080i and not 1080p. So buying a native 1080p HDTV right now might be a waste since there may not be anything to truly take advantage of it.
The larger issue is that all of the ICT enabled movies will be downscaled to 540p, which is barely better than a standard dvd. So the $500 PS3 becomes pretty worthless as a BluRay player once they enact the protection... and they will turn it on, the question is when. Once the copy protection is turned on, BluRay is more of a hinderance than a helper for the PS3: slower load times, no true HD movie playback, and both the media and the hardware cost more than the closest competition. The only advantage would be the larger space to hold games, but so far no games have required more than one disk.
SuicideNinja @ May 22nd 2006 5:40PM
Wow. People are insane. Does everyone know that 1080i and 1080p ARE THE SAME RESOLUTION? 1080p isn't any more "True HD" than 1080i. It's progressive vs interlaced, not graphic density. Progressive is preferred, but 1080 resolution isn't some jaw-dropping difference over 720.
What's even better is people still forget that all of these "next gen" games are going to be optimized for 720p. It takes too many resources to provide native 1080p.
.ed is right. There is going to be hardly any 1080p-support-over-component televisions. Sony's insane. All new TVs are moving to HDMI...which would be cool if HDCP wasn't involved whatsoever.
The ICT affects all resolutions. If implemented, you can't even get 720p through component. More like...540p.
Bloo @ May 22nd 2006 5:46PM
The only TVs right now that support component in at 1080p are DLP TVs that are really 540p and achieving 1080p through wobulation. The true 1080p DLP sets that have just come out only do 1080p over HDMI. Most PS3 games will only support 720p anyways so who cares? If you can afford a HDTV, you can afford a $600 console.
Fuzz @ May 22nd 2006 5:47PM
Here's my suggestion:
Buy the cheap model. By the time 1080p TV's are afordable, and you get one, you will be on your 2nd or 3rd PS3(judging by the quality of PS1 and PS2), then you can get the better model, and it will be cheaper. :P
bearattack79 @ May 22nd 2006 5:50PM
The sony hype machine is in full effect. But we are starting to see the cracks.
riffgod @ May 22nd 2006 5:51PM
uh...won't the PS4 be arriving around that time?
boots @ May 22nd 2006 5:54PM
"I feel sorry for all of those people that believe Blu-ray is going to be the "next gen" DVD."
Is there something to really feel sorry about them? I guess we should do some charity work for them then.
"HD DVD has all of the right components to beat out the competition. HD DVD players are far cheaper: Toshiba has them for 799.99 and 499.99 compared to Sony's at 1000.00."
Uh... I guess you forgot about certain Blu-ray player that has a hard drive and 1080p output (no HD-DVD player can output 1080p), let alone mass appeal.
"The physical media for HD DVD is cheaper to manufacture."
That's because it's old technology. Once Blu-ray starts full-on production (i.e. when PS3 is on the market), prices will go down significantly. Eventually, costs on Blu-ray discs could end up being cheaper, not to mention that Blu-ray disc have much better data protection, let alone storage space, among eliminating other problems. Read all this article for more information that debunks your misinformation:
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/blu-ray.htm
To quote a part of the whole article on matters of cost:
--------"Blu-ray discs only do the injection-molding process on a single 1.1-mm disc, which reduces cost. That savings balances out the cost of adding the protective layer, so the end price is no more than the price of a regular DVD."----------
On the benefits of Blu-ray against DVD (and HD-DVD):
-----------"Each Blu-ray disc is about the same thickness (1.2 millimeters) as a DVD. But the two types of discs store data differently. In a DVD, the data is sandwiched between two polycarbonate layers, each 0.6-mm thick. Having a polycarbonate layer on top of the data can cause a problem called birefringence, in which the substrate layer refracts the laser light into two separate beams. If the beam is split too widely, the disc cannot be read. Also, if the DVD surface is not exactly flat, and is therefore not exactly perpendicular to the beam, it can lead to a problem known as disc tilt, in which the laser beam is distorted. All of these issues lead to a very involved manufacturing process.
In the next section, we'll see how Blu-ray overcomes these obstacles.
The Blu-ray disc overcomes DVD-reading issues by placing the data on top of a 1.1-mm-thick polycarbonate layer. Having the data on top prevents birefringence and therefore prevents readability problems. And, with the recording layer sitting closer to the objective lens of the reading mechanism, the problem of disc tilt is virtually eliminated. Because the data is closer to the surface, a hard coating is placed on the outside of the disc to protect it from scratches and fingerprints. "
------------
And by the way, a material that makes Blu-ray better than HD-DVD for data protection against scratches, finger-prints, etcetera, is called DURABIS2, developed by TDK.
"Not a lot of funding needed to change the manufacturing process as well."
That's only an initial cost. The benefits are better in the long run, just read about it.
"Toshiba's HD DVD players have already been in the market."
And selling like hot cakes? No. Blu-ray players will be out soon, supported by more movie studios, and by more PC companies. After that, a lot more content will support Blu-ray.
"Ethernet input for firmware upgrade, Sony's player doesn't have that."
Uh... again, to quote the article.
---------"Blu-ray discs not only have more storage capacity than traditional DVDs, but they also offer a new level of interactivity. Users will be able to connect to the Internet and instantly download subtitles and other interactive movie features.
Blu-ray Advantages
record high-definition television (HDTV) without any quality loss
instantly skip to any spot on the disc
record one program while watching another on the disc
create playlists
edit or reorder programs recorded on the disc
automatically search for an empty space on the disc to avoid recording over a program
access the Web to download subtitles and other extra features"---------------
"The name "HD DVD" is consumer friendly."
As opposed to Blu-ray? I guess Blu-ray is "offensive". Then again, there have been several polls on which format do users prefer; users preferred Blu-ray, despite the "consumer friendly" HD-DVD.
"Triple layer HD DVD can hold 45GB."
Octuple layer Blu-ray, which has already been finished researching by TDK, can hold up to 200 GB (on 25 GB layers; if 27 GB layers are used, which do exist, the limit would be 216 GB).
"HD DVD is accepted by the DVD Forum."
The DVD Forum is as useless (or useful) as the Blu-ray Association. It's the same, so who cares? That's like saying "Playstation is accepted by Sony". Well duh.
"Several companies claiming blu-ray exclusiveness have switched to both camps."
Uh.... you mean several movie companies claiming HD-DVD exclusivity, switched to both. Examples: Warner-Bros, Paramount.
"All of these factors lead me to foresee HD DVD as the winner. REMEMBER VHS VS SONY BETA-MAX?"
Remember CD? Remember 3.5 inch diskettes? Remember HDTV? PS1? PS2? All those are Sony's successful formats, don't forget.
.ed @ May 22nd 2006 5:55PM
email reply I rec'd yesterday:
---------------------------------
Edward,
Thanks for your interest in Playstation 3. We are all very excited here reading all of the wonderful things the press has to say!
To answer your questions:
Yes, you are correct, the hardware kits in those tall cases you saw while at E3 were very similar to the ones sent to developers, but these were specially made for the E3 Expo for security reasons. Developers did not bring their own. I am sorry the Sonic game crashed while you were playing, there are always some bugs that must be worked out before a title is prepared for market.
As for the topic of 1080p output, you are correct, unless the HDTV already supports True HD (or 1080p), the Playstation 3 can create a 1080p image. In your example, the 1080i HDTV would be limited to 1080i resolution, even if using an HDMI port/cable so that person will be better off displaying a 720p image to their TV. It has understandably caused some confusion with Playstation fans but that is why I can not answer your last two questions right now, you will just have to wait and see! I can say that you do not need the most expensive HDTV to to enjoy a great picture from Playstation 3. A lot of HDTVs out there now can accept the widely popular 720p signal, which makes for great gaming I must say!
By the way have you seen all the new and exciting games available for Sony PSP? It is going to be an exciting year, don’t you think?
Thank you for your interest,
Sean Christopher
SCEA
boots @ May 22nd 2006 5:55PM
Oh, and it's not like in 5 years a PS3 will keep costing 600 dollars. By then, its cost will probably be a third of what costs now, or PS4 will be out. Unless Sony is bankrupt, of course.
Bloo @ May 22nd 2006 5:55PM
"Here is an example of a TV that will do just that:"
Note that your example TV component 1080p feature is listed as "undocumented" and they never touch on how it looks in the review via component at 1080p, only HDMI.
boots @ May 22nd 2006 6:01PM
"The PS3 is so powerful, it will support dual HDMI 1080p video output." -shortly after E3-2005...
Gee, I guess it only has 1/2 as much power as they thought when they claimed it was twice as powerful as the Xbox 360..."
PS3 was (and still is) overbuilt, but that's why it offers more things than the 360. The reason it doesn't have Dual HDMI output is because, most likely, everything that they wanted to put on PS3 didn't fit on it, and chances are that you don't have two 1080p TVs, so quit bitching.
NickMali @ May 22nd 2006 6:37PM
Sony's decision to not includethe hdmi is probably the right decision. Here's why:
Of the consumers that buy a ps3 tard pack most will not have HDTV of any kind. Assuming this, most of them will buy bluray disks thinking they will get the most out of them when they can afford a new HDTV. Assuming the ICT is not enabled for 4 to 5 years they will have enjoyed HDTV for nearly half that amount of time. Even then the disks that they own will not have ICT protection so they can keep watching them on the ps3 if (and here's the big IF) they have not yet purchased a stand alone bluray disk player for thier home theater system. This is what I think Sony is betting on. Not that it is a good bet but it is gutsy.
here's the sort version of my veiw of sony's tard pack plan:
HDTVless man buys ps3 tard pack>
man buys hdtv to support new found HDTV player>
man buys second standalone bluray player to support growing bluray collection>
man is immune to ICT changeup with new player>
Man goes bankrupt & homeless>
well the last one was just added for fun...
Staticneuron @ May 22nd 2006 6:40PM
I think the biggest and boldest statement has been said already.
"Will Blu-ray down-convert analog outputs?
No, Blu-ray players will not down-convert the analog output signal unless the video contains something called an Image Constraint Token (ICT). This feature is not part of the Blu-ray Disc spec, but of the AACS copy-protection system also adopted by HD-DVD. In the end it will be up to each movie studio to decide if they want to use this "feature" on their releases or not. The good news is that Sony, Disney, Fox, Paramount, MGM and Universal have already stated that they have no intention of using this feature. The other studios, which have yet to announce their plans, will most likely follow suit to avoid getting bad publicity. If any of the studios still decide to use ICT they will have to state this on the cover of their movies, so you should have no problem avoiding these titles."
http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/#bluray_analog_output
Pretty much they just named the the biggest members of the BDA. They didn't just say "delay" they say they have "no intention" of using this feature.
soo....
Sony who includes Sony pictures,sony pictures classics,mgm,columbia tristar and united artists
along with 20th Century Fox and Buena Vista( who owns The Walt Disney Studios, Walt Disney Feature Animation, Touchstone Pictures, Pixar Animation Studios, Miramax Films,ABC and much more)and
Paramount (A subsiderary of viacom. Includes other businesses such as MTV, comedy central nickolodeon and spike TV)Say they are not going to use ICP.
That leaves, Warner brothers ( who owns,HBO Films, New Line Cinema,Castle Rock Entertainment,Dark Castle Entertainment,Weblogs, Inc. ( sorry I just had to rub it in ^^),Cartoon Network/Adult Swim, and much more)
and Universal studios who has not really stated thier intentions but it seems as if they are going to hold off from implementing it.
Is there really anything to worry about?
http://www.blu-raydisc.com/general_information/Section-14009/Index.html
http://www.bluraydisc.com/
The New Revelation @ May 22nd 2006 6:56PM
Anyone who has seen 480p v. 480i (you can see for yourself on most xbox and ps2 games) knows that -progressive scan- content is visibily superior to -interlaced- content. If it progressive scan wasn't superior, one might wonder why it was invented in the first place.
MthdDirector @ May 22nd 2006 7:14PM
"Blu-ray players will be out soon, supported by more movie studios, and by more PC companies. After that, a lot more content will support Blu-ray."
Wow. Are you going to bet the ranch on that? I mean, really. "More studios" isn't really an accurate indicator, if a majority of the studios are supporting both formats. Even if Sony were the only Blu-Ray exclusive supporter, there would be a majority. No, the studios are not stupid. They will support whichever format makes money for them, even if it means both formats for the short term. "More content" depends on what factor? Consumer adoption of the technology. That's it. Studios aren't releasing their entire library on HD from the start because it makes no business sense to do so. There's no market right now. In December, as soon as Blu-Ray is released, do you really think there's suddenly going to be a market? No. It's going to take a year and a half (or even more) for consumer adoption to reach a reasonable level for the studios to even glimpse a big upside to one format or the other. Go ahead, bet the ranch on Blu-Ray today. I'm not saying you won't win 5 years from now. It's just not a rational bet.
"Blu-ray Advantages
record high-definition television (HDTV) without any quality loss" - this is a gross oversimplification of HD compression technology. The only "lossless" HD formats are used for professional high-definition production, and most of them are proprietary (Avid). I use "lossless" in quotes because unless you're archiving on D5, you're not using lossless formats. No consumer device, not Blu-Ray or HD DVD is even close. This is marketing hype.
"instantly skip to any spot on the disc
record one program while watching another on the disc
create playlists
edit or reorder programs recorded on the disc
automatically search for an empty space on the disc to avoid recording over a program
access the Web to download subtitles and other extra features"
Many of these features I've heard confirmed for HD-DVD. But these largely depend on device implementation, not the format itself. iHD is extensible. Unlike DVD's, we'll see both HD formats evolve over time, as more interactive capabilities are implemented by content producers in interesting ways. I wouldn't judge the interactivity component of either format based on the first year of content.
Vivio @ May 22nd 2006 7:22PM
I LOVE IT!!! You electronic 'Geeks' rule... Thanks for the info. I'm just a gamer using common sense, to figure that Sony was ripping us off. Now I "technically" know! Thanks again!!!
David @ May 22nd 2006 7:23PM
Ehhh this whole hi def argument is so talked to death its becoming increasingly annoying to just to type about it, but heres something I typed a minute ago from another forum.
___
The REALITY is that while 1080p is certainly capable this generation from ps3, It will undoubtedly NOT be a major selling point at all, and 720p is our current standard. The next generation in 5 or 6 years is where 1080p gaming will be a reality and when a new generation of conumsers will be asking all the same questions all over again. If you want to future proof your new TV sets the best advice anyone can honestly give you is to wait for SED's in 2007/2008 untill you really plump down the cash for an expensive TV. In the meantime get a nice 32" 720p set for maybe ~$1100, which you can sell later w/e. Keep in mind also that 1080p, though a true wonder to see in person is not noticeable, eg. Not worth it, at around sub 50" TV sets simply because the pixels are Too small for a person to discern any difference.
Best of luck with HDTV hope this helps
David @ May 22nd 2006 7:28PM
Stab @ boots
"HD DVD has all of the right components to beat out the competition. HD DVD players are far cheaper: Toshiba has them for 799.99 and 499.99 compared to Sony's at 1000.00."
Uh... I guess you forgot about certain Blu-ray player that has a hard drive and 1080p output (no HD-DVD player can output 1080p), let alone mass appeal.
___
Both of these statements are wrong really. Firstly this is BRAND NEW technology, hd-dvd/blu-ray, which will see huge price drops in the coming year and beyond, New tech always starts off ridiculously expensive and goes down with consumer adoption.
Secondly, only the very first hd-dvd player, the Toshiba model which came out about a month ago, is limited to 1080i. HD-DVD itself can easily display a full 1080p source and the players that are coming in the next few months WILL be capable of this.
Lou @ May 22nd 2006 7:47PM
@boots
Who's bitching? I'm just laughing. They go from 2 HDMI interfaces to 1 or 0. Yes, the PS3 is over-built...over-built as a PS2 emulator. It's not over-built as an Xbox 360 competitor.
Truly, I'm no fan of Microsoft, but they said what they'd build and they built what they said. Last year, Sony took notes at the MS conference and announced an x2 feature for feature for everything MS announced. How many USB ports is the PS3 down to now? How many wireless controllers will it support?
If you read the Joystiq comments from the original dual-HDMI announcement, I called B.S. on it back then with a quickness.
Anyway, it's a Wii for mii.
The ZeroCorpse @ May 22nd 2006 8:18PM
In the days since the E3 announcement, I've been selling Xbox 360s like hotcakes. Customers who know the PS3 price are grabbing the Xbox 360 now, while it's in stock, and people who are window shopping, but "thinking about getting the PS3" are quick to go for the Xbox 360 when I tell them how much the PS3 will be.
According to even my PS2-owning customers, they're considering the switch to Xbox because the titles they stuck around for, like the Smackdown series or GTA, are going to be on 360. There's no incentive to stick with Sony.
All week, I only had ONE customer say "I'm sticking with the PS3." and that was a 13-year-old who said he needed it to play the next Final Fantasy game.
Sony f*cked up, big-time.
It also doesn't help that the Sony rep hasn't come to the store to fix the two broken (frozen) PSP display units. People see that and say "typical Sony quality." --As it is, the rep has to replace the analog nub on the PSPs every time she comes in. This does not make customers feel confident enough to spend $500 or $600 when they could get away spending much less for essentially the same experience.
David @ May 22nd 2006 8:30PM
"It also doesn't help that the Sony rep hasn't come to the store to fix the two broken (frozen) PSP display units. People see that and say "typical Sony quality." --As it is, the rep has to replace the analog nub on the PSPs every time she comes in. This does not make customers feel confident enough to spend $500 or $600 when they could get away spending much less for essentially the same experience."
Well now thats not really fair. It's a public demo and people can be ass'es sometimes, who knows how many people go in there and purposfully try and break the thing.
D dogg @ May 22nd 2006 8:32PM
Consumer Friendly? No one on this forums is indicitive of a "regular consumer". We're all tech consumers.
Is HD-DVD more consumer friendly than Blu-Ray? You bet your ass it is. I'll bet you a PS3 a consumer looking to buy a DVD player and DVD disc to go with their HDTV will cognitively associate HD-DVD with a HD-TV before they will Blu-Ray. (please note the "HD")
You can speculate all you want and support your arguements Boots, but I'm willing to bet that PS3 you're wrong. History repeats and humans are predictible.
B Money @ May 22nd 2006 8:38PM
Boots, "Ethernet input for firmware upgrade, Sony's player doesn't have that."
Uh... again, to quote the article.
"Blu-ray discs not only have more storage capacity than traditional DVDs, but they also offer a new level of interactivity. Users will be able to connect to the Internet and instantly download subtitles and other interactive movie features."
SONY'S BDP-S1 Blu-ray Disc Player DOES NOT HAVE ethernet ports.
And seriously, HD DVD and Blu-ray are basically the same to the average consumer. They both are recorded in 1080p, and are both backward-compatible. The average consumer shopping at any electronics store is going to purchase the less expensive product. Average consumers will therefore, through early purchasing, adopt HD DVD as the next technology.
DocEvil @ May 22nd 2006 8:39PM
#9 .ed
"heres the thing, if you have a 1080p tv, it has HDMI in as well as component, but probably only takes a 1080p signal from the HDMI in and 1080i from the component if your lucky"
.ed, you make a very good point and you are partially correct and partially incorrect depending on the content and display you are using.
Presently, as you pointed out, there are only a select few displays that will accept and display full 1080p. The vast majority of 1080p displays on the market right now (even ones with HDMI) only accept 1080i and they use deinterlacers to recombine the odd and even lines into a whole 1920x1080 frame.
For film this isn't an issue since the original content on Blu-Ray(or HD-DVD for that matter)is 24fps (1080p24) so the odd and even lines in an interlaced signal are actually from the same frame and will be recombined into into a full frame without any lost visual information or image artifacts.
Interestingly, at the movie theatre, each frame of film is flashed on screen twice before the next frame comes up. This 'tricks' the eye into seeing a smoother motion on screen than would be seen with '24fps'. Most HD displays take a 24 frame source and apply a 3:2 pulldown algorithm to bring it up to 60fps but this will often result in an image 'stutter' if you watch for it. If you're lucky (or did your homework) your display will support 72fps and the image will be flashed 3 times eliminating this 'stutter'.
This leaves the issue of gaming... Very few games on the PS3 will be offered in 1080p to begin with so those (720p) titles will be unaffected by this issue. The titles that are offered in 1080p are -highly- unlikely to support more than 30fps and as disscussed above for film, a 1080p30 transmission will be impossible to destiquishable from a 1080i60 transmission.
If, however, a game was released that was running at 1080p60, then there would be 'shearing' artifacts most visible in high motion scenes when watching the 1080i60 signal.
Kamalot @ May 22nd 2006 8:52PM
2010 is 3.5 years away.
Will you have your console for more than 3.5 years?
$500 is too much on something that only lasts 3.5 years. $500 is also FAR too much for a game console.
DocEvil @ May 22nd 2006 9:18PM
Wow! Talk about a brain fart!
Instead of "destiquishable" replace with "distinguish" in my comment... how embarrassing...
dsub @ May 23rd 2006 2:49AM
I just love the irony of all this.
Sony: "The true next-generation of gaming is 1080p HD reolution, and it doesn't start until WE say so"
Gamers: "Ummm, okay..sure...but the 360...umm..."
Sony: "We'd like to introduce the $500 PS3, which is incapable of 1080p output, as it lacks HDMI"
Gamers: "But what about 1080p? I thought THAT was when the next generation started...so are you saying that the $500 PS3 isn't a true next gen console? I don't get it"
Brian Young @ May 23rd 2006 3:55AM
Even without the downscaling, you can't get 1080p without HDMI (or DVI, is it?)
ManekiNeko @ May 23rd 2006 4:19AM
This is completely idiotic. By the time 2010 arrives, it'll be time for a whole new generation of consoles! This begs the question... why even bother spending five hundred dollars for a stripped-down console that can't even take advantage of its Blu-Ray features, when you can spend hundreds less on consoles that don't have OR need this prohibitively expensive and underutilized technology?
JR
Goobers @ May 23rd 2006 5:57AM
to B Money, regarding comment #16
can't really argue with you with most of those points... yes, it's cheaper, and it's name is consumer friendly... but please, don't skew the size.
sure a TRIPLE layer HD-DVD is 45 GB, which is only 5 GB smaller than the 50 GB BT disc... but then, that was a DUAL layered BR disc... if you had a triple layered BR disc, wouldn't the BR disc now be 30 GB larger than the HD-DVD? at 75 GB vs 45 GB.
in fact, isn't the current limit 4 "layers" (either single sided triple, or double sided dual)... that comes to 60 GB. at four layers, isn't the BR disc 100 GB? that's 40 GB more than HD-DVD... but wait, isn't the current limit on BR, 8 layers? that's a WHOPPING 200 GB... 140 GB more, or more than 3 times the size of HD-DVD.
so yeah, stop skewing the storage size numbers.
too be honest, 8 layers is crazy... i'm still trying to wrap my head around it... but if you keep it to a more "acceptable" 4 layers ("double-double"), you still can't use size as a factor for HD-DVD "winning".
here's a question for ya... this is regarding ONLY the XBox360 (and "cheap" PS3)... does the add-on have an HDMI port? if not, how will you get 1080p when they implement ICT? what makes it any different than the "cheap" PS3? in regards to this blog, anyway.
Gazbin @ May 23rd 2006 6:31AM
If Blu-Ray tanks will Sony be pushing a UMD and exciting Mini Disk option?
Meantime, the slightly less exciting & expensive cut down half-witted PS3 should do the trick until it breaks down in 12 months. Yep proud owners of the first few batches will be delighted with the built in heater, the back ground noise feature.
Guys any news on the other exciting features? Sony has not explained if the half-wit PS3 model will still get all the good exciting DRM and extra Spyware bundles that Sony has perfected and no doubt ported across from their exciting music products. Very considerate and very exciting!
I am also quietly hoping that the exciting in-game-advertisements (In Sony talk: Exciting media content) will make up for the lack of in-game-plot. If I'm paying $100 for a game, it's only natural that they spam me.
Yep, It looks like it's going to be an exciting 2007 for Sony - a spectacularly exciting $1 Billion loss and lots of Sony people getting the chop – We looking forward to that one!
On behalf of the millions of Catholics around the world still trying to understand the genius of Sony's Da Vinci code, and the gazillion people looking forward to playing the Wii and not watching Blu-Movies. We say; Sony xxxx Off.